Broadcast: 28/08/00
Compere: Tony Jones
Reporter: Geoff Parish

Making Progress Noel Pearson has struck a new kind of deal with corporate and political leaders. It is part of his plan to lift his people out of what he calls the "pall of passivity" brought about by the welfare system. Tony Jones talked with Mr Pearson and discussed his ideas in detail. Mr Pearson attacked the "progressive thinking" that had made Aboriginal communities totally dependant on the welfare state, branding it "completely destructive and tragic".

TONY JONES: Last week, we reported Malcolm Fraser's controversial attack on the Government's Aboriginal policies, but another speech, by Aboriginal leader Noel Pearson, may have more profound implications. The details of Pearson's 'Light on the Hill' speech at the Ben Chifley Memorial Lecture in Bathurst, NSW took some time to leak out. Pearson's argument was such a radical departure from the normal rhetoric about Aboriginal affairs it was breathtaking. In a moment, we'll talk in detail to him about the arguments he's making, but first, reporter Geoff Parish travelled to Weipa where Mr Pearson has struck a new kind of deal with corporate and political leaders -- all part of his plan to lift his own people out of what he calls the "pall of passivity" brought about by the welfare system.

GEOFF PARISH: Wild, beautiful, rich in Aboriginal history and culture, that's one view of Cape York, but there's another. A region torn by grog, violence and unemployment. A social disaster caused by three decades of what Noel Pearson calls "the scourge of passive welfare". In a landmark speech, Pearson took a swipe at progressive policy-makers saying they've only made matters worse.

NOEL PEARSON, ADVISER, CAPE YORK LAND COUNCIL: Let us admit the fact we have no analysis, no understanding at all. All we have is confusion dressed up as progressive thinking.

GEOFF PARISH: Last weekend in Weipa in Cape York, Pearson set about breaking the welfare chains. Politicians, businessmen and community leaders gathered to forge a new economic and political relationship. One where indigenous people are treated as equals.

PETER BEATTIE, QUEENSLAND PREMIER: We've had 200 years of failure in this area. This is a new concept, a new idea, a new deal to end welfare dependency and therefore it's got to be worth a try.

GEOFF PARISH: At its heart, this new approach means giving Cape York people control over money and resources. It's a risk for government, and a change to decades of bureaucratic practice.

PETER BEATTIE: Oh, look, it's very, very hard. On a scale of one to ten it's a ten. No doubt about that.

GEOFF PARISH: The conference drew Australia's corporate elite, including Malcolm Turnbull from Goldman & Sachs, Sir Ninian Stevens was there. But this was no talkfest. The emphasis was on the practical.

STEVEN WILSON, MNG DIR WILSON HTM: You'd probably have to go off to Price Waterhouse or Coopers or somebody else and say put together a feasibility study.

GEOFF PARISH: According to Noel Pearson, meetings like these are a fundamental step in breaking the cycle of welfare dependency. He says it's all about forming partnerships.

NOEL PEARSON: I think we would do well to have the support, contacts, networking, involvement, opportunities, ideas that people from the private sector can provide to us, you know.

GEOFF PARISH: To build an economic base, they'll need business and management skills.

MALCOLM TURNBULL, MNG DIR GOLDMAN SACHS: The commitment that's needed is a two-way commitment, a reciprocal commitment from the local community saying, "We're prepared to take the lead, and responsibility, and be accountable."

GEOFF PARISH: What would it take for you to put some of your investment dollars in here?

STEVEN WILSON: Being certain that the Aborigines accepted that we have to make a profit to make it a good business investment.

RICHARD Ah Mat, CHAIRMAN, CAPE YORK LAND COUNCIL: I think we have to stick it out to prove that we are business-minded people. It's going to be hard but I believe if people actually take the opportunity, they will succeed.

GEOFF PARISH: As the conference finished, two charitable trusts announced grants totalling $150,000 towards an indigenous business institute. And then mining company Comalco said they would hand over to traditional owners, a nearby cattle station worth an estimated $4 million. Not a bad beginning for a quiet revolution.

INTERVIEW TONY JONES: The underpinning of Noel Pearson's quiet revolution was spelt out in his 'Light on the Hill' speech. It was -- first of all -- an attack on what he calls the "progressive thinking" that's enabled many Aboriginal communities to become totally dependant on the welfare state. Though it's been a great civilising influence in white society, says Pearson, in the black it's been "completely destructive and tragic". Earlier, I recorded this interview with him. Noel Pearson, let's start, if we can with your view of what the welfare system has done to your mob, as you call them in Cape York?

NOEL PEARSON, ADVISOR, CAPE YORK LAND COUNCIL: Many of the problems have actually arisen during the time that we've been in this passive welfare situation over the last 30 years. I've been trying to grapple with other leaders in Cape York with our outrageous social problems, and my view is that it is completely related to the fact that we've been in this situation of passive welfare for three decades.

TONY JONES: Now you've been talking about passive welfare for quite a long time but in your Light on the Hill speech, you move on to the pitfalls of progressive thinking. What exactly do you mean when you're talking about progressive ideas and policies being destructive?

NOEL PEARSON: Well, we don't think hard enough about many of the ideas we hold about the predicament of indigenous peoples in this country. For example, we defend our place in the safety net -- this country is committed to having a safety net, but how can we defend a situation where people live at the bottom of a safety net for three decades with all of the attendant social problems? And we see that life in this safety net for three generations is not a good thing, it doesn't produce good social results for families and individuals, and yet all of our progressive energy is directed towards defending our right to live at the bottom of the social welfare net. What, instead, we should be doing, if we're truly progressive, is that we should be defending and advocating the right of our people to take a fair place in the real economy. That is, not down here at the safety net level -- we should, in fact, be enjoying a better place in the country, a place in the real economy.

TONY JONES: What are you saying, though, to people who would regard themselves as progressive thinkers and who've been championing the causes of Aboriginal people for decades?

NOEL PEARSON: My view is that after '67 with the referendum, two things happened -- one was the recognition of the land rights of indigenous people and the human rights, and I think that's been an absolutely positive thing and a correct thing. And the struggle for land rights has been absolutely correct. It's been empowering of Aboriginal people and the support that we've gained from progressive people within the Australian community has been absolutely vital to the land rights debate. But in relation to social and economic issues, I think that, really, the only solution we ever had was to defend the position of indigenous people at the most miserable bottom end of the Australian society and economy. That is, living on the welfare safety net.

TONY JONES: Let's look at some of the specifics that you talk about in your Light on the Hill speech. Now you've targeted the legal aid system as one of those progressive responses. Now what has been the problem, in your view, with the legal aid system?

NOEL PEARSON: Well, the only response we have to this disastrous situation of indigenous imprisonment, that is, 2 per cent of the population comprise something over 30 per cent to 40 per cent of the prison population in the different States and Territories -- 2 per cent of the population being 30 per cent of the prison population. And our only response to that has not been to restore social order in our communities so that our people can avoid any interaction with the criminal justice system, we've simply posed legal aid as a solution to that terrible and growing predicament.

TONY JONES: One quote from your speech, "When crimes are committed, the offenders are treated like victims." What do you mean by that exactly?

NOEL PEARSON: Well, you know, there's no doubt there are problems with the criminal justice system, that legal aid has played a role in alleviating and ameliorating, but in our communities in Cape York, when you look at the crimes for which Aboriginal people are sentenced to imprisonment, you actually see that they involve offences against other Aboriginal people. It involves acts of violence and so on against family members and other community members. That is, there's a lack of social control and order within our communities and families. And many communities are crying out for the restoration of social control and for the authority of elders to be restored in our communities and for Aboriginal law to be recognised within our communities so that some social control and order is reimposed and restored in our communities. Now that's the more urgent need.

TONY JONES: So you're not suggesting in any way that legal aid should be done away with?

NOEL PEARSON: Oh, absolutely not. But being the predominant progressive response, the fact is that there are wives, there are girlfriends, there are family members, there are community members who are, in fact, calling for more social control. The response of the outside world is to say, "Listen, these indigenous people are interacting with the criminal justice system, and, therefore, we need an effective legal aid mechanism." In fact, legal aid has become part of the criminal justice industry around Aboriginal imprisonment. We just process people. In Cape York, you go to a magistrate's court hearing on Monday morning and it's just processing people through the system, and it's no wonder we constitute 30 per cent of the prison population. I have no hope -- I have absolutely no hope that we will ever reduce that statistic until we get real about the need to talk about this unfashionable thing, this unfashionable thing about restoring social order in our communities.

TONY JONES: You talk about a rule of thumb, being that if you actually did the opposite of what progressive thinking dictates, you'd have more chance of making progress?

NOEL PEARSON: Yeah, that's a general rule of thumb. I've been surveying many scores of government programs and initiatives that are progressive, that are well-meaning in relation to Aboriginal education, Aboriginal health, Aboriginal involvement in the criminal justice industry and so on. And I look at all those programs and I think to myself, "You know, really, none of these programs have ever lifted us out of our position." So if we actually thought laterally in relation to some of these programs, we would find that perhaps what we need to be doing is something approximately the opposite to that which is said to be progressive. For example, in relation to drugs and alcohol, the solutions to our grog and drug epidemic is probably going to be quite unfashionable, a bit old-fashioned.

TONY JONES: What sort of solution do you see? Because you talk very clearly in your speech about something that you call "symptom theory".

NOEL PEARSON: Well, you know, the fact is that grog is so much of a problem in our Cape communities, I mean, I think there was one report that said the per capita consumption of grog amongst Aboriginal people in the Cape York is amongst the highest consumption in the world. We have an epidemic that's embedded in our social relationships. The symptom theory says, "Well, this alcoholism is simply a symptom of people's miserable condition." What I'm saying is that, "No, alcohol is an addiction and is a problem in itself." Yes, people's social and economic conditions make them susceptible to addictions, but it doesn't make them inevitable that they should fall into alcoholism. The problem with the symptom theory is it kind of absolves people from taking responsibility for the grave problem of addiction. We've got to front addiction as a social problem within our communities and that may involve some radical thinking in some communities, in our communities where there are big problems. It might involve listening to what the old people are saying about restrictions. Because the problem has become so embedded in our society old people and old women in many of our communities, they go around on night patrols trying to stop young people from getting into drugs and grog. When you get into that situation and these old people are saying, "We want to put a stop to grog," some of these solutions might, in fact, be the correct solutions. My hope is that we've got to come to a democratic decision in our own communities. We've got to get together, we need leadership in our communities and we need to come to democratic decisions about the fact that these are problems and we have to confront them. We can't avert our eyes any longer from these problems.

TONY JONES: Finally, other Aboriginal leaders, since you made the Light on the Hill speech have been remarkably quiet about the ideas you've been expressing there. Behind the scenes, have you provoked much anger because of the things you're talking about, because of how plainly you're saying it?

NOEL PEARSON: I don't think so. Obviously, I speak for Cape York and my own personal philosophy is that indigenous leaders need to be responsible for their own mob. And I'm taking responsibility for my mob up here in Cape York and I'm not just doing it alone, I'm doing it with a clutch, a handful of community leaders across the region and there are more and more leaders at the community level who are talking in the same language. So we in Cape York have to take responsibility for our own predicament. Of course, indigenous leaders in other parts of the country will have their own ideas about what needs to be done. I've got to say that I think there's general agreement about the imperative for economic development. We have to take an economic stake in the country. My own view is that until we take an economic stake in the country, we're never going to resolve these incredible social problems that afflict indigenous people. You know, it's a matter of profound, um, disbelief on the part of all Australians, black and white, about the scale of our problems. You know, I think there's a universal goodwill and a universal hope that indigenous people might be able to overcome their problems and yet we've never been able to do it. My own conviction is that until we restore an economic base to our communities -- a real economy, so that we're not languishing in the passivity of dependency, that we take charge of our own lives and our own communities and our own families -- when we do that, we will climb over our social problems.

TONY JONES: Noel Pearson, we'll leave it there for now. Thanks, indeed, for joining us tonight and, hopefully, we'll be able to speak again with you about these issues when the ideas you're talking about start to take shape.

NOEL PEARSON: Thanks, Tony.